I don’t normally do this and discuss things in a negative manner towards other preachers.  But I was about to post up some audio on Kingdom financial issues when it comes to giving, tithing, receiving, etc.  As I was going to do this I heard a new message from Todd Bentley’s Podcast and was a little disheartened.

I hope it comes across that it’s not Todd that I’m trying to “come against” but this style of ministry that I thought I left when I removed myself from the Word Of Faith teachings.  Todd does have responsibility because he is the one speaking here, and I have submitted this link to his ministry so that he would have a chance to see it and respond if he feels it’s at all necessary.  But my main purpose for doing this is to help the believers not fall for this kind of false doctrine from anybody, Todd was just the person I heard doing it last so I’m just using him as an example.  And I want to start a discussion with you about giving and issues of money as it relates to the Kingdom.

I don’t want to step out of line and I don’t know if this is the "right" thing to do or the way to do it.  So I think we should talk about that too.  Should we call this kind of stuff out, or just let it slide, or is there something in between that is suitable?

So many people are huckstered into giving to a ministry because they feel guilty, ashamed, or that they may miss out on an opportunity to receive blessing (or “anointing”), or sometimes it’s just purely out of the possibility of getting that return payment from God that they’re promised from the preacher.

This audio is from a message I heard last week on Todd Bentley’s podcast, and to be honest it literally made me feel sick.  I’m not a huge follower of Todd Bentley’s ministry but I do have respect for his work and preaching of the gospel.  I’ve listened to about 10 or more of his messages over time, so maybe I’m not qualified to speak on this.  But, regardless, this just made me sit back and tilt my head.

My initial thoughts were, “I thought I was done with this kind of garbage when I stopped listening to Word of Faith guys…”  When I was introduced to the prophetic movement I was relieved to know that there was a genuine strand of humilty and authenticity out there.  It’s been a real long time since I’ve heard anything like this from someone I liked.

I debated with myself whether I should put this up or not because I didn’t want to be one of those guys that just pointed out the flaws and bad doctrine of other people.  But after seeking a bit of council I’ve decided it could be a good thing and we could possibly talk about stuff like this openly…and from both sides of the coin.  I know Todd Bentley is a pretty popular preacher so I’m sure some people might not like this post.  But I would encourage everybody that has an opinion to post it.  Maybe I’m wrong in thinking this is against the principles of the gospel.  If I am, I want to know and I’m willing to be corrected.  But from my perspective, this may help set some people free from the guilt and shame that some preachers use to get worldly wealth.

Here are some of my personal notes regarding this teaching with the minute and second placing in the audio so you can reference it (linked below the notes):

- 5:30 Todd opens this message with a trance he was involved in.  In it he sees this “angel of finance” and then he’s taken up to heaven and see’s himself in a “treasure room.”  In this treasure room he sees himself stuffing his pockets with gold coins and then he asks the Lord “What am I doing?”, and the Lord responds “You’re getting the offering”.  It’s odd that in this trance Todd had, he was stuffing these gold coins (the  offering) in his pockets.  And just a few minutes later in the audio, it’s actually happening to him during the message [starting at 10:50].  It seems that people are actually coming up and putting money into his pockets.  He’s actually, personally, literally, GETTING the offering. 

- 6:32 Todd mentions something he calls “Sowing in the glory”, where he says that in a time of anointing, that’s when you want to sow…into that anointing.  And he says “That’s what I want - I want that” [Can’t buy the anointing, *BUT* I’m sowing into that."  This is crazy to me!  To think that our financial giving has any impact on the Lord when it comes to His presence!  The anointing is the Holy Spirit of God, it’s not some magic power, it’s simply the very presence of God and to think that a little piece of paper with some man’s face on it will influence God into giving us His presence is horrible.  Maybe this is a good practice for Todd, it’s never a bad idea to give, regardless of the time or the “anointing”, but to suggest this as a practice to the fold is sloppy.  At the VERY minimum it puts it into the mind of believers that aren’t strong enough in their walk that money is somehow related to the presence of God.  Todd knows this is what it sounds like because he mentions it in the middle.  What’s the “but” for?  But what?  Can’t buy the presence of God…but what??  Please, don’t stop, exactly how does any amount of paper of any value somehow trump or get added to the very blood of Jesus….but what??!

- 7:40 He keeps going and again says, “You can’t buy the anointing, BUT…"“.  And then says in regards to a story where he is giving to another minister that he was going to, “Sow it into the man…because there’s something in the man that I WANT”.  “I don’t give for money, I want the glory”,  “I’m reaping a 100 fold of glory realm”
Even though he says “but”, he’s still insinuating that somehow a financial gift to another minister will release the presence of God into our lives.  What it really sounds like is that he’s setting up the people to give to him…and that’s exactly what happens.  To me, and I may be wrong, but it’s as if he’s telling us this story of how he did something so we would feel comfortable or find some benefit in doing the same to him.
  He then mentions that he received a sign of the impartation.  God said in regards to gold dust appearing that it was “A sign that you received an impartation…that it showed up.”  So apparently we’re getting the success that the transaction went through.  We know that we shouldn’t offer up lambs, sheep and goats anymore on top of the altar of God, but a few dollars is an acceptable transaction.

- 9:15 Now Todd begins to speak of another meeting previous to this one and mentions that during the message, “All of the sudden people got up.”  and started to give, that there was “No official call for offering." and that one man gave “3 times over the course of the evening.”  He then goes on to say that “Everybody was getting money.”  It would’ve been great if this meant all the saints were giving to each other, one in abundance was giving to another in lack so that nobody was without…but unfortunately I have the feeling that instead of the giving being horizontal, it was from the seats to the pulpit and back.

- 10:50 Then, if nothing but a lack of taste, it seems that a person is coming up trying to give to Todd and he says, “Use this pocket”.   Is this really a demonstration of the Kingdom of God?  Do we really expect that when Todd sits down here that Jesus gives him a high five and says “I really liked the pocket part, that was good.”  I mean, come on…it’s completely embarassing to see such a highly honored man resort to such a tacky level.  But this is part of the vision where Todd saw himself stuff the offering in his pocket.  He’s literally getting the offering. Imagine that.

- 11:50 Here Todd gives a story of an unbeliever getting born again during a meeting where gold starts to show up.  If anything was good out of all this, it would’ve been this.

- 12:14 And again he says, “I’ve got back pockets too.”  Still, I’m just imagining Jesus standing in the streets of Capernaum saying “Hey don’t worry, my friends have money bags too”.  And if we don’t picture Jesus doing this, why would we do it and let other ministers get away with it?

- 13:55 Now Todd begins to give instructions and a plea to give saying, “People are giving already”,  “You may end up giving 2 or 3 times”.  And then he says, “The tithe doesn’t bring us into the blessing.” and suggests that maybe we’ve been “Tithing for years but we’re still not blessed.” and insinuates that it’s because we’re stuck at giving our tithe and not stretching to give that offering. 
    What’s our blessing?  Is it a financial gain or is it the freedom and access to live in the Kingdom of God through Jesus’ death and ressurection?  Our blessings aren’t given in porportion to our tithe or our offering…it started with God and it ends with God, there is nothing we can give to put God in debt to us. 

- 14:50 Now Todd references Acts where there was a “Culture of giving and revival…nor was there anyone AMONG Them who lacked”.  This again is not at all what’s going on here.  From what I could tell, and I could be wrong and would love to be corrected, but this wasn’t horizontal giving among the saints, it was from the believers to one man/ministry.  Instead wouldn’t it be great if we found out the needs of the body and instead of giving our resources to fund programs and salaries that we actually helped the body when it lacked.  I’m sure there were people in that meeting that needed help financially, wouldn’t it have been awesome if all the believer’s needs were met before giving to the ministry? 

- 15:00 Here again Todd is now instructing the people to “Consider above and beyond your tithe an offering, and sow into the midst of this glory realm…there’s something happening today.”  To me, it seems that he simply sets up the people with these stories and experiences only to give them a reference when it’s time to give to him.  If that’s not what it is, that’s exactly what it sounds like to everybody else…the only people who buy (pardon the pun) into it are the ones that actually believe that they can purchase the Kingdom of God.

- 15:28 Now Todd get’s into classic TBN mode, “It may be that $1000 seed that you need to sow this morning.  It may be that $500 seed that you need to sow this morning.”  “Go above and beyond your tithe.”

- 15:53 More…“I’m doing the offering right in the midst of my message and at any moment during the message you want to keep giving, you just keep coming…I’ve got lots more pockets.

- 16:08 Blah, blah blah…“I’m just telling you right now that God wants to bring a realm of financial breakthrough and blessing here in this place, in this church”

- 16:30 Now the classic…“We can take credit card, but don’t be empty handed.  I think this is a realm in which you need to get involved, somewhere or another, you need to make a demand on heaven…”  To think that any man of God would instruct the children of God to borrow from the world and go into debt to give into God’s Kingdom is about the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.  Again, I heard this all the time in the Word of Faith camp, and I still hear it other places but it just drives me through the roof.  PEOPLE OF GOD, please don’t fall for this. It’s like God telling the people of Israel to go back into Egypt and ask the Pharaoh if they could borrow some money to give towards the construction of the gold cherubim that sit on top of the ark of the covenant because they ran out of gold.  It’s not necessary or even sane to think God would want us to go into debt to give any kind of gift to Him.  We’ve stepped out of bondage into freedom, why would we want to go back?

- 17:15 Again with the pockets… “This pocket here”

- 17:30 “We’ve got the treasure room open this morning.  We’re not just receiving an offering right now.  All morning is an offering.  The treasure room is open and you’re just sowing, and giving, go above and beyond, let’s give radically”  “There’s something of God’s glory being released right now in the realm of finances and giving, we need to get involved.”

- 18:08 More suggestions in hearing God for the giving opportunity..“Be open to God speaking to you a second time and say ‘I want you to sow again’", “That one man gave 3 times, according to what the Spirit of God told him, $300,000 the next day, he said ‘This stuff works’, it showed up out of nowhere.”

- 19:20 “Let’s keep the baskets here because I want people to just give and give and give again.  And just have that opportunity to bring your….”

HERE IS THE ACTUAL AUDIO Download MP3

You can listen to the full message on Todd Bentley’s podcast, go to http://www.freshfire.ca for more info

Why doesn’t  Acts 8:18-23 come up to mind here??

    18 When Simon saw that the Holy Spirit was given when the apostles placed their hands upon people’s heads, he offered money to buy this power. 19 "Let me have this power, too," he exclaimed, "so that when I lay my hands on people, they will receive the Holy Spirit!"
    20 But Peter replied, "May your money perish with you for thinking God’s gift can be bought! 21 You can have no part in this, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Turn from your wickedness and pray to the Lord. Perhaps he will forgive your evil thoughts, 23 for I can see that you are full of bitterness and held captive by sin."

How is what Todd was doing and suggestion any differen than what Simon was rebuked for?

Todd mentions a Spirit of supernatural giving.  You know what I think would’ve been supernatural giving?  If out of nowhere and without suggesting, the people of God would start fulfilling the lack within the body of Christ.

I would love for a preacher to practice what he preaches and instead of trying to convince the people to stretch there faith and give and place a demand on heaven that instead,  they themselves would stretch their faith and place a demand on heaven by NOT asking for an offering.  THAT would be faith…to really trust God that He could move on the people of God to give to the ministers of the Gospel without suggestion.

Listen people, we have to stop falling for this junk.  If we didn’t buy into it, it wouldn’t be happening.  Unfortunately this has been going on for years and years even before Jesus’ day, and I’m sure it won’t stop until it’s all said and done. 

Let’s take this back to Christianity 101.  If we want to give financially to God, how do we do it?  Well, here’s one way…remember the story of the goats and sheep?  When Jesus said “when I was hungry, you fed me.  When I was thirsty you gave me drink.”  and the people said, when did we do this?  What was His response?  “When you did it to the least of these, you did it unto me.”  Wouldn’t it stand to reason then if we wanted to REALLY give to God that we would find the “least of these”?  This is what Jesus was talking about in the parable of the unfaithful steward in Luke 16:1-18, this is why Jesus says that the children of this world are wiser than the children of light.

I’m just really dissapointed to hear this from Todd Bentley.  It sound’s no different than the horrid mess coming out of the mouth of people like Mike Murdock, we don’t fall for it from him (at least I hope not, although he’s still on TV so I guess it’s still working on some), why should we with someone even of the stature of Todd Bentley

 

Originally, before I even heard this message, I was going to put up these messages from a relatively unknown minister of the Gospel, Gary Carpenter.  Ironically enough he ministers out of the Mecca of the Word of Faith message in Tulsa, Oklahoma.   His message on finances and the Kingdom of God is something I’ve never heard anywhere else, it will truly, truly set you free.  After listening to Todd’s message above, please listen to a few of these short mini-messages , you’ll probably laugh out loud at the simplicity of it all:

Gary Carpenter Short Money Teaching #1 (Stream) Download
Gary Carpenter Short Money Teaching #2 Download
Gary Carpenter Short Money Teaching #3 Download
Gary Carpenter Short Money Teaching #4 Download

For more of Gary Carpenter’s mesages about Kingdom Finances, which I highly recommend, go here:
http://www.garycarpenter.org/KingdomFinances.html

Now seriously, I would love to open up a discussion on these things.  Was Todd out of line?  Am I?  What should our response be if any?  This is so prevelant in the church these days, I would love to just have some real honest discussion on the matter.

Feel free…and I apologize if I’ve offended anyone, it’s not my intent, I just want people to freely live in the Kingdom of God.

Matthew 17:25b-26: "What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?  26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free."

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